team3d
Well-Known Member
so that extra 100hp is useless ? it's all about skills ?
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R18 Vs/Or K24's, That is the question
- Thread starter Monk
- Start date
so that extra 100hp is useless ? it's all about skills ?
trustdestruction
Well-Known Member
If you don't shift into the right gear and the R18 automatic does, then it could easily pull ahead while you bog down your engine at WOT
- Thread starter
- #43
Monk
Well-Known Member
There are a lot o ppl that don't use their available rpm range when drag racing or even straight roll-on racing. It's a matter of numbers power to wt. The only flaw is the driver.
Nix
Jötunn Moderator
Also the LX is significantly lighter than the Si. 300lbs or around there I believe.
Im not gonna say ive tried to race anyone but I have pulled the pinch on a couple people who I think were surprised.
Im not gonna say ive tried to race anyone but I have pulled the pinch on a couple people who I think were surprised.
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team3d
Well-Known Member
Yeah it's about 300lbs
I also shaved off an extra 60lbs off my car recent
I also shaved off an extra 60lbs off my car recent
- Thread starter
- #46
Monk
Well-Known Member
What did you remove?
team3d
Well-Known Member
I photo and document every parts that help me reduce weight, my projection is 100lbs, im not ready to post everything just yet.
But, I already post my 13lbs forged rims on the wheel the tires section
My 17" rims weight 32lbs each corner, I remove almost 20lbs of unsprung weight just from the rims
team3d
Well-Known Member
Did u even try to race an si ??
R18 can't beat an si, but I don't think they can "smoke" r18, rolling start, I'll say 3-4 car lanes, 1/4 miles, about 5-6 cars lane...
In my dictionary that's not "smoke".... 10+ car lanes is "smoke"
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Dragos
Well-Known Member
Actually flooring a car does not yield the best results
A Vette floored either will get its power cut due to tc kicking in or it will burn tires and still not move as fast as desired with TC off. Flooring the Si does not make it go the fastest, properly working the clutch, gears and throttle will.I still agree that skill is more important than the car but straight line a Si driven properly is way faster than a LX automatic assuming equal skill driving of both is present. Stock over stock of course.
The Si also has much better brakes and suspension so that will also count a lot on curvy road.
Still a bad driver in an Si vs a good driver in a LX, LX will win.
team3d
Well-Known Member
This is just freeway racing, it's 5 lane freeway at nite time, been racing legal and illegal since 1986. I seriously doubt u need skill to drive fast on a freeway.
I meant "smoke" as in win. But i mean if the same driver drove both the Si would definitely win just because its the more performance oriented of the two.
And no, ive never met anyone with an Si lol
Dragos
Well-Known Member
Freeway racing considered none of them are the proper tools in my opinion. The Si is a nimble agile car that on a track is better due to less weight, better handling and better gear ratios. An Accord V6 to keep it Honda is better for that or a plain old american muscle will do wonders.
Drag racing requires tons of skill for feeling the clutch, grip and making sure not to over or under accelerate. Same can apply for freeway racing if people start at low speeds. I did notice the Si is not a high speed beast, it is a very fun car up to 100 mph then it definitely looses its edge. For legal speeds and a serious amount over or a nice curvey track it is snappy fast.
Tires, gas, maintenance and many more can make a huge diff as well. Put 87 in an Si, dirty air and gas filters, bad oil or no oil change, dirty spark plugs and so on can slow it down more than one thinks.
I am not trying to make the Si a super car do not get me wrong for 20k more you can get other cars that will smoke the Si straight line or curvey track if one chooses properly. The lx is still an economy car, fun, can be great in the right hands but it is not what one calls a fast car. Si is an entry level fast car, there's lots of real fast cars but they come with much more serious price tags and ownership costs.
Stock over stock, a well modded Si is a completely diff ball game or a well modded LX though as any said that has more challenges in the way since LX is made to be efficient and Si is made to be a fast reliable no luxury car for a lower cost .
Slap the same insane turbo on each or super charger with crazy exhaust and intakes and with proper use the bigger engine will yield more. Both are current generation not like we take a 5.0 from the 60s and a 1.8 from current times.
I deviate from the original topic though, I learned a long time ago there is no absolutes for anything a 1.8 can be a hell of a lot better than a Veryon depends what you want out of it and how you see it. A dry moldy piece of bread is a feast for a hungry man and a juicy tender steak is nothing for a full belly every day person.
We're debating apples and oranges but it is for sure fun
Drag racing requires tons of skill for feeling the clutch, grip and making sure not to over or under accelerate. Same can apply for freeway racing if people start at low speeds. I did notice the Si is not a high speed beast, it is a very fun car up to 100 mph then it definitely looses its edge. For legal speeds and a serious amount over or a nice curvey track it is snappy fast.
Tires, gas, maintenance and many more can make a huge diff as well. Put 87 in an Si, dirty air and gas filters, bad oil or no oil change, dirty spark plugs and so on can slow it down more than one thinks.
I am not trying to make the Si a super car do not get me wrong for 20k more you can get other cars that will smoke the Si straight line or curvey track if one chooses properly. The lx is still an economy car, fun, can be great in the right hands but it is not what one calls a fast car. Si is an entry level fast car, there's lots of real fast cars but they come with much more serious price tags and ownership costs.
Stock over stock, a well modded Si is a completely diff ball game or a well modded LX though as any said that has more challenges in the way since LX is made to be efficient and Si is made to be a fast reliable no luxury car for a lower cost .
Slap the same insane turbo on each or super charger with crazy exhaust and intakes and with proper use the bigger engine will yield more. Both are current generation not like we take a 5.0 from the 60s and a 1.8 from current times.
I deviate from the original topic though, I learned a long time ago there is no absolutes for anything a 1.8 can be a hell of a lot better than a Veryon depends what you want out of it and how you see it. A dry moldy piece of bread is a feast for a hungry man and a juicy tender steak is nothing for a full belly every day person.
We're debating apples and oranges but it is for sure fun
team3d
Well-Known Member
r18, you can do intake, exhaust, header with high flow cat (RV6 is looking into it), underdrive pulley kit, coil-pack upgrade, tbs, aluminum intake manifold, 2.0 stroker kit, 6 speed manual transmission swap, port & polish, knife edge crank shaft, short block balance, and you can reduce the total curb weight down to 2600lbs (lx sedan) or 2500lbs (lx coupe)
compare to 3000lbs si sedan & 2900 lbs si coupe
compare to 3000lbs si sedan & 2900 lbs si coupe
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I didnt know that rv6 was looking into a high-flow cat for the non-Si. I think that would be a good addition for anyone looking to go forced induction for sure
team3d
Well-Known Member
they are, been talking to them about it...
can't force induction a r18 till there is fp option for our car...
if there is fp option, we can use 8th gen r18 turbo kit, 8th gen r18 supercharger kit & we can easily have a 250whp~300whp r18 civic
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team3d
Well-Known Member
from full race:
Full-Race Civic R18 Turbo Kit FAQ
If you are seriously considering forced induction on your R18 - read this FAQ. It was written to help answer many common questions, and discuss the special attributes that make the R-series engines from Honda great for boost. If there is something you need to know not listed, please email tech@full-race.com and we'll help. The information contained herein has taken years of hard work from many smart people to compile. If you are serious about turbocharging your car, and do not yet understand turbochargers, Full-Race highly recommends reading these two books to get prepared for boost.
Honda Motor company designed the lightweight low-friction "R-Series engines" for excellent fuel efficiency/MPG, low emissions, and long life. Found in 2006+ non-Si Civics (R18) and international Accords and CRVs (R20), the R-series cylinder head features an integrated exhaust manifold for maximum exhaust heat energy and "fast catalytic converter warmup". The downside to this cylinder head design is poor "All-Motor" Naturally-Aspirated power ... However, the upside of this design from a performance enthusiast perspective is it's perfect for a turbokit: the increased heat energy which normally helps to warm up the cat faster - now helps spool the turbo faster (which is just fine by us turbo honda afficionados). These additional MPG technologies only help to make great power under boost. great video here: Honda Worldwide | New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine and one more good link here: Honda Worldwide | July 5, 2005 "Honda Develops New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine"
Top 10 things that make the R18 perfect for boost
Full-Race Civic R18 Turbo Kit FAQ
If you are seriously considering forced induction on your R18 - read this FAQ. It was written to help answer many common questions, and discuss the special attributes that make the R-series engines from Honda great for boost. If there is something you need to know not listed, please email tech@full-race.com and we'll help. The information contained herein has taken years of hard work from many smart people to compile. If you are serious about turbocharging your car, and do not yet understand turbochargers, Full-Race highly recommends reading these two books to get prepared for boost.
- "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell
- "Street Turbocharging" by Mark Warner - (Full-Race contributed to this book)
Honda Motor company designed the lightweight low-friction "R-Series engines" for excellent fuel efficiency/MPG, low emissions, and long life. Found in 2006+ non-Si Civics (R18) and international Accords and CRVs (R20), the R-series cylinder head features an integrated exhaust manifold for maximum exhaust heat energy and "fast catalytic converter warmup". The downside to this cylinder head design is poor "All-Motor" Naturally-Aspirated power ... However, the upside of this design from a performance enthusiast perspective is it's perfect for a turbokit: the increased heat energy which normally helps to warm up the cat faster - now helps spool the turbo faster (which is just fine by us turbo honda afficionados). These additional MPG technologies only help to make great power under boost. great video here: Honda Worldwide | New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine and one more good link here: Honda Worldwide | July 5, 2005 "Honda Develops New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine"
Top 10 things that make the R18 perfect for boost
- ultra-lightweight engine, and transmission, showing cyl head with integrated manifold
- Bore and Stroke are identical to the legendary GSR and ITR B18
- The R18 uses a full 1-piece main bearing girdle
- "Long-rod" Forged Steel Connecting rods with rod BOLTS (not studs - easy to upgrade to ARP hardware)
- The R18 has a 10% reduction in friction from a special cylinder wall hone and moly-sulfide bead blast and ion treated piston rings. High durability and low friction.
- pistons cooled by built-in oil jets (typically only found on high end honda motors). This is important for a turbocharged engine which has increased piston temperatures.
- cylinder head design is an ultra efficient way to deliver high temp exh gasses immediately to a turbocharger
- Easy to disable EGR using OE Honda components
- the R20 is available for more power and any R18 guys looking for BIG power can do a bottom end swap to the R20 (or sleeve your R18 to 2.0L!)
- Hondata FlashPRO is available!! MAF based engine management makes tuning very accurate and simple
^yeah, im seriously considering supercharging, as soon as the proper hardware/FlashPro is available. Ive read that article before and even though i think its about the 8th gen R18, it just proves how good of an engine the R18 is!
HeelsandEers
Well-Known Member
Easily make 250-300whp? I don't know of any r18 making 300whp and only one or two that I've seen over 250. And those are with fully built engines. There's nothing easy about that.
I still don't understand the point in dropping $5000+ on an engine to barely break 200whp.
Nix
Jötunn Moderator
If I had a manual I would recommend the Jackson Supercharger kit. You can easily get mid 200's and maintain your mileage with the bypass valve which is pretty sweet.
The only real restriction on the automatic is issues you may run into with the torque converter being able to handle a lot of extra power and shifting quickly. A few guys running turbo automatics had trouble with boost creep due to the shifts being so quick. I believe one of them had some sort of shift delay mechanism or custom torque converter to help.
There is a company in northern NJ called level10 who will make custom torque converters. It's a little spendy but might be worth looking into if you are going that route.
You can get a custom welded high flow cat made for the r18 but NA guys were finding a loss of power running that type of setup for some reason. I never got the answer to it. You basically had to modify the stock parts to get the flange for the top and bottom and weld in a universal HF cat. Berk technology and magnaflow both made ones that fit in the space available. Im sure there are others.
Links:
Level ten:
http://www.levelten.com/
Magnaflow header with HF cat:
http://www.procivic.com/pages-product_car_part_info/category-70_129/product-827/index.html
I can't find the berk one anymore....
The only real restriction on the automatic is issues you may run into with the torque converter being able to handle a lot of extra power and shifting quickly. A few guys running turbo automatics had trouble with boost creep due to the shifts being so quick. I believe one of them had some sort of shift delay mechanism or custom torque converter to help.
There is a company in northern NJ called level10 who will make custom torque converters. It's a little spendy but might be worth looking into if you are going that route.
You can get a custom welded high flow cat made for the r18 but NA guys were finding a loss of power running that type of setup for some reason. I never got the answer to it. You basically had to modify the stock parts to get the flange for the top and bottom and weld in a universal HF cat. Berk technology and magnaflow both made ones that fit in the space available. Im sure there are others.
Links:
Level ten:
http://www.levelten.com/
Magnaflow header with HF cat:
http://www.procivic.com/pages-product_car_part_info/category-70_129/product-827/index.html
I can't find the berk one anymore....