Poll: Stock Si Clutch Too Soft?

[procivic]

Do many of you 2012+ Si owners here think the factory clutch is too soft? Some customers like a fairly stiff clutch with good feedback, while others want a clutch pedal that's very easy to depress. Just curious how you guys think the factory Si clutch compares to your idea of an "ideal" clutch.

 

[323]

It is a little too soft, I would want a little more pedal feel in it.

 

[Word3k]

Every Honda I've bought I end up changing the clutch asap. I need a heavy clutch pedal, otherwise it doesn't feel right.

 

[PainIs4ThaWeak]

What kind of question is this? (And :shocked: at the responses)

Maybe the question being asked should be "Why ISN'T a light pedal ideal?"

I can think of a couple reasons why it IS ideal:

1. Lighter clutch pedal effort usually implies less stress on clutch master cylinders, clutch slave cylinders, lines, release bearings, and crankshafts.
2. Lighter clutch pedal effort will usually promote greater driver focus. (eg. 20 minutes into a session, fatigue of your left leg is going to be a distraction. Regardless if conciously, or subconciously, it is still a distraction. The same can be said in stop/go traffic.)
3. The time old argument of "overkill". Which would you rather pay to replace: Transmission gears/synchros, or a clutch? "Just enough" clutch (regarding torque witholding) is, well, just enough (unless more agressive friction materials are needed to withstand the stresses/heat of the given application.)

Bullet #2 is also directly related to driver comfort. An uncomfortable driver will make mistakes, and be slow around the track. (The series of "Speed Secrets" books by Ross Bentley explains this in great detail regarding the "why" behind this phenomenon.)

 

[JonnyRotten]

I think the other thing to keep in mind when answering this is what do you use your car for? Is it a DD or do you track or drag your car?
Personally I'm happy with how the stock clutch feels. I use my car as a DD.
I like your reasoning @PainIs4ThaWeak BTW.

 

[Word3k]

Its a matter of preference for each person. But I've never had an issue with my leg getting tired from a stiff clutch, no matter how long I drive. I do agree with that a light clutch implies less stress on the trans.

 

[webby]

Get stuck in a traffic jam for 4hrs moving 4 feet every 30sec and a really stiff clutch sucks. I only had to deal with that once but it was a mess. I haven't had a really stiff clutch in quite a few years. Seems like they keep getting lighter and lighter.

 

[FooBird]

Get stuck in a traffic jam for 4hrs moving 4 feet every 30sec and a really stiff clutch sucks. I only had to deal with that once but it was a mess. I haven't had a really stiff clutch in quite a few years. Seems like they keep getting lighter and lighter.

Been in that for 90 minutes. Even with the lightness of the Si clutch, my left leg was getting stiff.

Seems like there is a small window for people. Not much space from the "delightfully light clutch feel" to "completely numb."

I personally like the lightness of the input. Make clutch too stiff and throws too long and is like driving an old truck.

 

[JonnyRotten]

Get stuck in a traffic jam for 4hrs moving 4 feet every 30sec and a really stiff clutch sucks. I only had to deal with that once but it was a mess. I haven't had a really stiff clutch in quite a few years. Seems like they keep getting lighter and lighter.

Ewww I've done that before. Not fun at all!

 

[procivic]

What kind of question is this? (And :shocked: at the responses)

Maybe the question being asked should be "Why ISN'T a light pedal ideal?"

I can think of a couple reasons why it IS ideal:

1. Lighter clutch pedal effort usually implies less stress on clutch master cylinders, clutch slave cylinders, lines, release bearings, and crankshafts.
2. Lighter clutch pedal effort will usually promote greater driver focus. (eg. 20 minutes into a session, fatigue of your left leg is going to be a distraction. Regardless if conciously, or subconciously, it is still a distraction. The same can be said in stop/go traffic.)
3. The time old argument of "overkill". Which would you rather pay to replace: Transmission gears/synchros, or a clutch? "Just enough" clutch (regarding torque witholding) is, well, just enough (unless more agressive friction materials are needed to withstand the stresses/heat of the given application.)

Bullet #2 is also directly related to driver comfort. An uncomfortable driver will make mistakes, and be slow around the track. (The series of "Speed Secrets" books by Ross Bentley explains this in great detail regarding the "why" behind this phenomenon.)

The point of the question was just to see how people's opinions vary on whether or not they prefer a stiffer or softer feeling clutch. Your point #1 is a good reason to prefer a softer clutch if all else is equal and you would normally be indifferent between a soft and stiff clutch. However, some vehicles use a "helper spring" in the clutch pedal which makes it artificially soft and takes the feel away from the clutch. From my experience, most people who track their cars or drive them aggressively prefer a clutch with good feel and a very "positive" engagement, which usually means the clutch is a little on the stiff side. Then again, if you're stuck in traffic, you want the softest pedal feel you can get

 

[JonnyRotten]

The point of the question was just to see how people's opinions vary on whether or not they prefer a stiffer or softer feeling clutch. Your point #1 is a good reason to prefer a softer clutch if all else is equal and you would normally be indifferent between a soft and stiff clutch. However, some vehicles use a "helper spring" in the clutch pedal which makes it artificially soft and takes the feel away from the clutch. From my experience, most people who track their cars or drive them aggressively prefer a clutch with good feel and a very "positive" engagement, which usually means the clutch is a little on the stiff side. Then again, if you're stuck in traffic, you want the softest pedal feel you can get

Some people get so serious @PRO Civic.....

 

[PainIs4ThaWeak]

The point of the question was just to see how people's opinions vary on whether or not they prefer a stiffer or softer feeling clutch. Your point #1 is a good reason to prefer a softer clutch if all else is equal and you would normally be indifferent between a soft and stiff clutch. However, some vehicles use a "helper spring" in the clutch pedal which makes it artificially soft and takes the feel away from the clutch. From my experience, most people who track their cars or drive them aggressively prefer a clutch with good feel and a very "positive" engagement, which usually means the clutch is a little on the stiff side. Then again, if you're stuck in traffic, you want the softest pedal feel you can get

Some people get so serious @PRO Civic.....

My point is, there isn't a way to alter (easily) the pressure required to depress the clutch pedal in the 8th & 9th gen, as these cars do not have provisions for helper springs like the 370/G37/Fiesta ST/P911/etc. (Unless you're brainstorming the design of an aftermarket solution?)

The only other option I am aware of, is to utilize a pressure plate with stiffer-than-OEM leaf springs or a clutch master cylinder with a larger bore. Which, again, creates greater stress on other clutch-related components. (I, along with many others, have broken the firewall on the 8th gen. The cause for most of us, points to the strength of the pressure plate springs, bore size of the master cylinder, or both. In my case, the clutch being used was a "Stage 2" Competition Clutch product. There are many more who have broken clutch pedal brackets related to the same.)

What is not clear to me, is the robustness of the *9th* gen's clutch bracket, and firewall mounting points, compared to the 8th gen. You may be just fine. But I'm more inclined to assume that Honda hasn't changed the design in these areas.

Back to the point - What I can't seem to wrap my head around is why one would need increased release/catch feel of the clutch engagement for OTHER than DD purposes. On the track, shifts are executed as quickly as possible with no "hunting" or "feeling" of the engagement/dis-engagement points. You literally "kick" it, and move out.

Assuming anyone else believes/feels the same as what's just been explained, then you probably should decide for yourself which camp you're in, based on the information provided in this thread.