Anyone else experience large amounts of smoke from their stock brakes after some aggressive braking? I drove some twisties pretty hard this evening and when I came to a stop at the end there was so much smoke coming from the front passenger side that I thought I had a fire and pulled off to investigate... Found nothing other than very hot smelly brakes... Pad recommendations for light racing duty/heavy street duty? Scared the crap out of me, I've never seen that much smoke from brakes before.
Brakes smoking
- Thread starter dath1974
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Are you at all concerned with noise or dust?
If you can find them, and they are extremely dusty & dirty, AXXIS Ultimates.
There is some sort of shakeup going on with the company currently so I have been unable to find a set myself. They are probably one of the best brake pads I have ever used.
The problem you will run into is needing a high performance pad that can also be used in low temps and also when the pads are cold & you've just started your car. The AXXIS Ults fit this perfect.
That said, and their unavailability, I am trying a new pad shortly. Project Mu B Sports. They will be getting a very thorough testing in about 3 weeks at the Dragon.
I have gotten some very good advice on brake pads from @jrotax101
@Dar-Dar is in the midst of upgrading pads at the moment also. He might have some insight as well on some pads he has used and the new ones once he gets a chance to drive them. Brembo pads I believe.
You also don't want to get a full on track pad as the aggressive nature of the pad will destroy rotors quickly.
If you can find them, and they are extremely dusty & dirty, AXXIS Ultimates.
There is some sort of shakeup going on with the company currently so I have been unable to find a set myself. They are probably one of the best brake pads I have ever used.
The problem you will run into is needing a high performance pad that can also be used in low temps and also when the pads are cold & you've just started your car. The AXXIS Ults fit this perfect.
That said, and their unavailability, I am trying a new pad shortly. Project Mu B Sports. They will be getting a very thorough testing in about 3 weeks at the Dragon.
I have gotten some very good advice on brake pads from @jrotax101
@Dar-Dar is in the midst of upgrading pads at the moment also. He might have some insight as well on some pads he has used and the new ones once he gets a chance to drive them. Brembo pads I believe.
You also don't want to get a full on track pad as the aggressive nature of the pad will destroy rotors quickly.
kgf3076
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Hawk street pads. I run Hawk HP Street 5.0 pads. No (or very little) fade, some dusting, great stopping power.
A high temp fluid is also a good upgrade. There are lots of them out there. I know some of the Motul brake fluids are very popular like the RBF600. Great performance but a lot of the high end fluids need to be bled and swapped out once a year or sooner. The brake fluid will absorb moisture from the air and contribute to a spongy pedal feel. There are midrange fluids out there that would match your midrange pad selection pretty well.
I currently run ATE Type200, which is the same as ATE Superblue, except that Superblue is now illegal, lol long story there, but yes, it may not be "as good" at the limit but it doesn't need to be flushed as often either. It's designed to stay in the system longer than some of the very high end fluids out there.
Long story short, buy upgraded pads and consider upgrading your brake fluid also.
I currently run ATE Type200, which is the same as ATE Superblue, except that Superblue is now illegal, lol long story there, but yes, it may not be "as good" at the limit but it doesn't need to be flushed as often either. It's designed to stay in the system longer than some of the very high end fluids out there.
Long story short, buy upgraded pads and consider upgrading your brake fluid also.
JonnyRotten
Well-Known Member
Did you experience any brake fade @dath1974?
I wonder why it was only the passenger side brakes smoking and not the drivers side as well?
Dar-Dar
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Smoking brakes? That hasn't happened to me yet, unless the brakes are wet.
These were/are my brake setups:
-(past) EBC Reds on stock rotors with ATE Super Blue: The EBC Reds were so squeaky loud during the cold weather. They were also not that responsive since they needed to warm up. At ~20k miles, I checked the condition of the brake pads. They were cracking and no longer usable. I mailed the broken parts to EBC for further checks.
EBC Reds = bad for winter and bad quality. Dust level = 8/10
-(past) Stoptech Pads on Centric Blank Rotors with ATE Super Blue: This is a terrible setup. The squeaks were beyond belief. I had to regrease the pads at least 3-4 times, but that did not reduce the brake squeal. The stopping power was there, but the Stoptechs are not worth it for daily driving. The amount of dust it gives is much worse than the EBC Reds.
Stoptech Pads + Centric Blanks = huge thumb down. Dust level = over 9000.
-(Current) TSX Front calipers/Brembo rotors/Brembo pads(no rears yet) with Motul RBF600: Well, this setup is still on it's break-in period. The outside break-in coating from the rotors are almost completely gone. I really like this setup. It is very quiet and has much more bite compared to my previous setups. I really can't compare this setup to my previous ones since I added a bunch of additional parts (Russell SS Lines). Plus, the calipers are bigger. I wouldn't be able to identify the brake dust level yet since I just washed my car yesterday. I'm still waiting for my rear rotors to arrive.
TSX Calipers + Brembo parts + Russell Lines = so far, so good. Dust level = ?
These were/are my brake setups:
-(past) EBC Reds on stock rotors with ATE Super Blue: The EBC Reds were so squeaky loud during the cold weather. They were also not that responsive since they needed to warm up. At ~20k miles, I checked the condition of the brake pads. They were cracking and no longer usable. I mailed the broken parts to EBC for further checks.
EBC Reds = bad for winter and bad quality. Dust level = 8/10
-(past) Stoptech Pads on Centric Blank Rotors with ATE Super Blue: This is a terrible setup. The squeaks were beyond belief. I had to regrease the pads at least 3-4 times, but that did not reduce the brake squeal. The stopping power was there, but the Stoptechs are not worth it for daily driving. The amount of dust it gives is much worse than the EBC Reds.
Stoptech Pads + Centric Blanks = huge thumb down. Dust level = over 9000.
-(Current) TSX Front calipers/Brembo rotors/Brembo pads(no rears yet) with Motul RBF600: Well, this setup is still on it's break-in period. The outside break-in coating from the rotors are almost completely gone. I really like this setup. It is very quiet and has much more bite compared to my previous setups. I really can't compare this setup to my previous ones since I added a bunch of additional parts (Russell SS Lines). Plus, the calipers are bigger. I wouldn't be able to identify the brake dust level yet since I just washed my car yesterday. I'm still waiting for my rear rotors to arrive.
TSX Calipers + Brembo parts + Russell Lines = so far, so good. Dust level = ?
- Thread starter
- #8
@Nix - I'll definitely upgrade the fluid as well, though I don't think I had any boiling with the factory stuff (remarkably, those calipers were *HOT*)... I don't mind needing to flush the fluid once a year, though I'm only logging about 4000 miles/year currently... ;-)
I didn't experience any noticeable fading... I had traction control off, and was working lots of corners, but didn't feel I was braking overly much. Of course the last car I drove this hard weighed a bit less and had mammoth-sized brakes by comparison with gigantic and heavy 4-piston calipers... I'm *guessing* the smoke only was coming from the passenger side simply because the wind was blowing that way and likely blowing smoke from the drivers side under the car. By the time I found a safe place to pull over to check things the smoke was all gone, I just had the very hot wheels and horrid brake smell to go by...
@Dar-Dar - I couldn't find much info about TSX caliper installs on the 9th (probably just inept at using search)... Are they a direct bolt-up? What year/size TSX calipers? Do they also use larger rotors? How much larger is the piston and are you just upgrading the fronts? Another option may be the Buddy Club route, but that is perhaps a more extreme fix than is really necessary...
Sounds like I've got some things to think about. I really appreciate all the feedback/suggestions, that helps. I'd rather not go through too many rounds of swapping parts out as this is my driver and while I enjoy working on it, I rarely enjoy doing a job over again due to crap parts or bad choices.
Dar-Dar
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The TSX Calipers range from 2004-2010. The calipers (and pistons) are much larger than stock. Same with the rotors. I'm not sure how much larger they are in comparison to the 2012+ Sis though but they will surely clear the stock wheels. This is what they look like on my FG2:
The clearance between the stock wheel's spokes and the caliper is around 3mm.
You'll end up getting wheel spacers for mono block calipers.
The clearance between the stock wheel's spokes and the caliper is around 3mm.
You'll end up getting wheel spacers for mono block calipers.
@Dar-Dar That's interesting that you had squeaking with the Stoptech pads, I've had them on two different cars and never heard a peep out of them. I will agree the dust is pretty ridiculous however majority of it will come off once you spray it with water.
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I have not seen anyone attempt the TSX swap onto a 9th gen yet either. Team3d seems to think that the TSX brake is the same as the 9th gen Si brake. I have looked at part numbers but I am not sure. The Accord calipers fit on the 8th gen just like the TSX. The first number is the same and I don't quite understand the second numbers but if things hold up then it does look like the 9th gen Si has the larger calipers already. If this is so, then upgrading fluid and pads should be all you need.
TSX caliper: 45018-SEA-J02
Accord Caliper: 45018-SDP-A01
2012 Civic Si Caliper: 45018-TR7-A01
Rotor part #s:
TSX: 45251-TA1-A00
Accord Rotor: 45251-TA6-A00
2012 Civic Si rotor: 45251-TR7-A00
It looks like the calipers and rotors are the same. You already have an excellent brake setup and just need to upgrade the pads and fluid. That is awesome news. A lot of the 8th gen track guys thought those brakes should have come on the 06-11 Si standard.
This also means you should be able to cross shop performance pads with the 04-08 Acura TSX, the 2012 Accord EX-L V6 Coupe 6-speed Manual, and the 2012+ Civic Si.
I know a lot of places don't list the 2012+ civic yet, buy you could also look under those other categories.
TSX caliper: 45018-SEA-J02
Accord Caliper: 45018-SDP-A01
2012 Civic Si Caliper: 45018-TR7-A01
Rotor part #s:
TSX: 45251-TA1-A00
Accord Rotor: 45251-TA6-A00
2012 Civic Si rotor: 45251-TR7-A00
It looks like the calipers and rotors are the same. You already have an excellent brake setup and just need to upgrade the pads and fluid. That is awesome news. A lot of the 8th gen track guys thought those brakes should have come on the 06-11 Si standard.
This also means you should be able to cross shop performance pads with the 04-08 Acura TSX, the 2012 Accord EX-L V6 Coupe 6-speed Manual, and the 2012+ Civic Si.
I know a lot of places don't list the 2012+ civic yet, buy you could also look under those other categories.
I bought the accord calipers since they are 1/4 the price of the TSX. All the remanned brakes that are available list both fitments. I think no one has had to replace brakes on the 2012/13/14 civics yet so cores probably haven't been swapped. 90% of all the calipers out there are made by Nissin. I'm sure they know for sure once a core comes back with the serial numbers stamped on them.
Dar-Dar
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Actually, maybe not.
I've heard that people end up running 3mm or 5mm spacers when they have 2006-2011 Si wheels on their 2012+ Sis.
- Thread starter
- #15
@Dar-Dar - Sorry to dredge up the past, but in an old post regarding the EBC Redstuff pads, you seemed happy after the first year?
"After over a year now, my rotors are still in great shape. The EBC redstuff didn't eat away the stock rotors at all. Also, people were saying that they get squeaks frequently with these pads, especially during the cold season. But I think it's all about the proper bed in. My pads don't squeak at all."
Did they just go downhill after that? I'm a bit torn right now as it's difficult to find part numbers for much other than the Hawk HPS pads for fronts on the 9th. I just feel there are enough folks that don't think the HPS pads are much better than stock to give me pause going that route, @jrotax101 for example. Naturally I'm going to an HPDE on the 9th (just found out about it) and so I think I'm pretty much too late to solve this issue beforehand...
"After over a year now, my rotors are still in great shape. The EBC redstuff didn't eat away the stock rotors at all. Also, people were saying that they get squeaks frequently with these pads, especially during the cold season. But I think it's all about the proper bed in. My pads don't squeak at all."
Did they just go downhill after that? I'm a bit torn right now as it's difficult to find part numbers for much other than the Hawk HPS pads for fronts on the 9th. I just feel there are enough folks that don't think the HPS pads are much better than stock to give me pause going that route, @jrotax101 for example. Naturally I'm going to an HPDE on the 9th (just found out about it) and so I think I'm pretty much too late to solve this issue beforehand...
Dar-Dar
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Nice that you found that. My last year with those pads really changed my perspective on them. My Stock rotors did manage to warp which is one reason why I went with the centric rotor/stoptech setup. The redstuffs just squeaked and the stopping power was bad during the cold as well. The pads might have started breaking an cracked possibly 6 months before I removed them. If I didn't notice how bad the pads were, the crack could have gone all the way through separating the pad material from the plate.
Here are the pics of the cracks on the pads:
It's weird that I change brakes around the same month. I installed the Redstuffs on Sept 2011, Stoptech pads/Centric Rotors on Sept 2013 and Brembo pads/rotors on late August 2014 (literally days ago).
Here are the pics of the cracks on the pads:
It's weird that I change brakes around the same month. I installed the Redstuffs on Sept 2011, Stoptech pads/Centric Rotors on Sept 2013 and Brembo pads/rotors on late August 2014 (literally days ago).
Those aren't cracks. That's the pad material separating from the backing plate. I saw this happen at T1 at AMP when a E92 M3 applied the brakes at 140 and his HAWK DTC pads sheered off the backing plate. He ended up on his roof after hitting the tire barrier head on (after the gravel trap).
I really dislike all EBC pads.
I would check if project mu, endless, cobalt,carbotech or porterfield make them for the 9th. I'm sure @Nix could chime in.. but I haven't looked at whatever car the 9th shares the pad shape with.
I really dislike all EBC pads.
I would check if project mu, endless, cobalt,carbotech or porterfield make them for the 9th. I'm sure @Nix could chime in.. but I haven't looked at whatever car the 9th shares the pad shape with.
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