Air leak from windows?

Giffy

Giffy

Well-Known Member
Messages
39
Reaction score
21
Location
Wantagh, New York 11793
Vehicle Model
civic si
Body Style
coupe
Hey guys,
Anyone else notice air leaks coming from the front of their driver side window, right up to the a-pillars?
A quick look see shows all weather stripping in place.
Anywhere above 35mph it starts.
Tomorrow i'll investigate further, just curious to see if anyone else was experiencing this?
Geoff
 
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I haven't noticed any air leaks but a few times I felt that I might have the window open a little as it sounds like it. I hit the up button and the window doesn't move, so I thought it might just be my imagination. I'll be curious to see waht you come up with.
 
yeah same thing I dont know why but I notice it more when its raining I feel like if its inside
 
Seems to me there's a safety factor built into the window to keep from hurting fingers and what-ever, it could be related to that, maybe not letting it go all the way up(even though you're saying it seems to be the leading edge, just saying........
 
Yup. I've had this issue "fixed" two times from the dealership. The ultimate consensus according to the dealership was that nothing was working to fix it, everything was operating as designed, and that American Honda has utterly no idea (or other complaints) regarding this issue...but they'll keep the ticket open. I've talked to a dozen or so other owners that have the same issue.

I am not satisfied with this. An air leak of this level on a brand new car screams of poor design and engineering, and I expect it fixed. I won't hesitate to use the lemon law if I try to get it fixed another time just to prove a point. I know that might be ridiculous, but I have a long (rarely positive) history with Honda, despite my general love for their vehicles.

Here's what I've discerned from this issue. When the driver's side window on my 2012 Si coupe is all the way up, there is an air leak (mostly sound) that lets excessive amounts of wind and road noise into the cabin, particularly at speeds about 50 miles per hour or above (you'll hear it more at high speeds, REALLY windy days, or rainy days, as there's more road noise to get "in").

However, if you press the window down button for just a fraction of a second (so that the window moves but is still sealed shut), the noise completely goes away.This makes it more tolerable, but again - shouldn't have to do this.

Neither the dealership nor I can explain why this is and they tore my door apart trying to figure it out. The one thing they DID mention was that on the Civic, when the window "seals" shut, the door panel EXPANDS (rather than tightens like most cars). When it goes down, the door panels tighten (usually the opposite occurs).

I can deal with some of the other quality related issues due to Honda's very poor decision to make the Civic more "simple" (to be polite) for 2012, but this is one I will not tolerate. I'm waiting til spring before I make my next move. The next move will be calling American Honda Corporate and demanding a closer look be paid to it, otherwise they have a lemon law case on their hands when I have the dealership attempt to fix it again. Over something that they should've gotten right in the first place.

In before someone says "turn up the radio."
 
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I feel a cold breeze since its gotten colder. Windows all the way but somewhere in the door area there is air getting in. I don't think it's the window in my case. But I have to turn the heat on and off cuz of this. I usually set the heat, but leave it off after I get warm, but the vents open so that in high speed, warm air still gets pushed thru. But then the cold air leaks in I feel it around the level of the armrest. So I don't think it's the window. It's annoying tho.
 
mno 86 said:
However, if you press the window down button for just a fraction of a second (so that the window moves but is still sealed shut), the noise completely goes away.This makes it more tolerable, but again - shouldn't have to do this.
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I'm not saying you shouldn't follow though with dealing with them the way you want.......... but I'm thinking of a fix........... push a piece of rubber about the same size as the movement you use to correct the issue into the top track so it will stop where you want it..... If they had been thinking on the fly they could have done the same thing, or if the track could be lowered a smig same fix....... If you try it let me know how it does ....... you can always remove it with needle nose pliers or such, forceps ?
 
Monk said:
I'm not saying you shouldn't follow though with dealing with them the way you want.......... but I'm thinking of a fix........... push a piece of rubber about the same size as the movement you use to correct the issue into the top track so it will stop where you want it..... If they had been thinking on the fly they could have done the same thing, or if the track could be lowered a smig same fix....... If you try it let me know how it does ....... you can always remove it with needle nose pliers or such, forceps ?
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That's a good idea, thanks for the tip!

I don't have the technical skills to do this, and frankly, the movement of the window is so minimally small, I'd never know how to scale it properly. The dealership replaceed several parts thinking they were installed wrong (which wouldn't have surprised me given the glaring oversights I've seen on the bumper fitment and glovebox alignment on numerous 2012's), but it was to no avail.

I've put off calling American Honda because I had such terrible experiences with their customer service (I hope Kenitra got fired, what a horrid woman) with my 2006 Si, but I know that it's gonna come to that. Thankfully, my dealership takes the issues very seriously and isn't gonna try to sweep it under the rug. They just no longer know what to do.

It might take having a Honda specialist come up (I got to know him on a first name basis with my 2006 Si), and I'm not above demanding it.

Anyone else having this issue? I'm curious if it's a coupe-only issue or if sedans suffer from it too. The 2012 LX sedan rental I had did NOT have this problem.
 
Awesome, thanks for the feedback.
Mno86 you were saying that the door panels were said to expand when the window was all the way up, that plus the fact that lowering it a smidge cut-out the noise would lead me to believe thatthe windows when totally closed warp something and cause an air gap. Could be wrong it's just a hunch but i'm gonna go play around with it right now. I think the ultimate fix here would be to lower the maximum height of the window when closed with the adjustment bolts. Lowering it say a 1/6" might keep whatever is shifting at max height from moving at all.

Either way Honda still needs to address this be it excessive movement/warping or something simpler that is still overlooked.
 
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Giffy said:
Awesome, thanks for the feedback.
Mno86 you were saying that the door panels were said to expand when the window was all the way up, that plus the fact that lowering it a smidge cut-out the noise would lead me to believe thatthe windows when totally closed warp something and cause an air gap. Could be wrong it's just a hunch but i'm gonna go play around with it right now. I think the ultimate fix here would be to lower the maximum height of the window when closed with the adjustment bolts. Lowering it say a 1/6" might keep whatever is shifting from letting the air in.

Either way Honda still needs to address this be it excessive movement/warping or something simpler that is still overlooked.
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Very interesting theory. Please report back and let us know what you find! Glad I was able to contribute with my findings. I still struggle to figure out where exactly the air leak is coming from, but it is DEFINITELY there.

Last my dealership told me, Honda Tech Line had never heard of this issue. But I've also been fed the same lie from Honda before (over the 2006-2011 Si 3rd gear issues), even when hundreds of others had filed complaints, so I'm skeptical lol.
 
Really interesting. I checked, and just like you said mno86, if you close the window and bring it back down a hair the outside noise dissipates almost entirely. Sure enough you can see the door skin moving quite a bit when the window is up fully and relaxing when you back it off some. Still, i can't pinpoint where it's coming from. i'll let you know how it is after i adjust the glass, probably friday i'll get around to it.
 
Giffy said:
Really interesting. I checked, and just like you said mno86, if you close the window and bring it back down a hair the outside noise dissipates almost entirely. Sure enough you can see the door skin moving quite a bit when the window is up fully and relaxing when you back it off some. Still, i can't pinpoint where it's coming from. i'll let you know how it is after i adjust the glass, probably friday i'll get around to it.
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Our '98 EX coupe has always done this - I just lower the window 1/4" and raise it to fix. Definitely can see the door panel flex as the window gets to the top or starts down.
 
Giffy said:
Really interesting. I checked, and just like you said mno86, if you close the window and bring it back down a hair the outside noise dissipates almost entirely. Sure enough you can see the door skin moving quite a bit when the window is up fully and relaxing when you back it off some. Still, i can't pinpoint where it's coming from. i'll let you know how it is after i adjust the glass, probably friday i'll get around to it.
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Any word Giffy?
 
Sorry, busy the last few days.
Well it is adjusted now and better than it had been, but i'm not satisfied.
The tone of the sound is different now, and the overall volume less.
This is gonna drive me bat **** crazy... now that i started playing around with
this i'll never be able to ignore it again!
But again...overall, better.
 
Updates:

I've brought it in several more times to no success in repairs. They actually evidently swapped my window out for another "new" 2012 on the lot (which I find shady), and it didn't solve it. As this has aged, I have begun to notice that I think this is coming from the door panel - not the window. It's as though there's a leak coming from within the door panel. I hear it on very windy days, when a car passes me, and always hear the road noise, particularly at highway speeds. At 70 mph, its nearly unbearable as a driver with sensitive hearing.

The dealership hasn't been taking it seriously and my patience has waned. I involved American Honda and they are sending a specialist out. I told her I am done with this issue and the next time I drop the vehicle off for this issue, I do not want it back until it is fixed. If it cannot be fixed, I expect us to come to a reasonable solution or accomodation that appeases me. There is no excuse for this on a new car. I had a 2013 rental and frankly, the refinement is in a different league. For a car as loud as the 2012 interior is to begin with, I can handle. But an air leak on top of that - not acceptable.

I'll update more when I get my answers. I doubt this qualifies for a lemon law, but if it does, you can bet I'm going to do it. Is that crazy? Perhaps, but I believe strongly in sending messages, and I am not pleased with Honda's handling of the 2012 Civic compared to the 2013. And there's a bit of vengeance involved with that, I suppose. All I really want is the wind leak fixed and I'd be completely happy with the car, all things considered. I will get something out of this though, whether its a fix or compensation or settlement on some level.

A user on another forum created a web page (that is since under construction) detailing his db levels in his 2012 Civic LX coupe - he had db readings in excess of 90 db, and Honda admit there's nothing they could do. But, for what its worth, that is well above the healthy range. I'm curious to see what level mine runs at. Edmunds test shows that the Si at full throttle is approximately 67.4 db at 70 mph.
 
webby said:
90db inside the car????
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Yeah, I found it hard to believe myself. He had a website up at http://www.civicnoise.com with a TON of information. If you go to google, type in "civicnoise.com" and hit the drop down box for View as Cached, you'll be able to see all the information.

I have no idea what my db level is - I doubt its that high, but I've got an appointment with the engineer next Friday to try to get this door panel thing figured out. I know a handful of other owners who have the same issue and I want to get to the bottom of it. It makes high driving pretty unbearable, and its loud enough in the car to begin with.
 
I'm at an absolute loss for words. Why doesn't he just go for a test ride in another 2012 and record those decibel readings for comparison? If other test vehicles all show a major difference...something is up. I can't even figure out how he has readings over 100db?? Surely he test drove the car? Surely it didn't just happen? Is it engine noise, tires, wind....? I don't really see him blaming it on anything. Have you talked to this person?
 
webby said:
I'm at an absolute loss for words. Why doesn't he just go for a test ride in another 2012 and record those decibel readings for comparison? If other test vehicles all show a major difference...something is up. I can't even figure out how he has readings over 100db?? Surely he test drove the car? Surely it didn't just happen? Is it engine noise, tires, wind....? I don't really see him blaming it on anything. Have you talked to this person?
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Yes. I feel like he said they drove a comparable 2012, but I can't recall correctly. He and I exchanged emails and he made his case very well. A lot of people gave him grief on other forums, but honestly...sometimes I think people forget that not all cars are made 100% the same. Machine precision still isn't infallible, and flaws do happen. I am super sensitive to sound levels, so the interior of the 2012 is awful for me (despite it being lower on db readings than the 8th gen according to edmunds, in some categories), but the air leak in my driver's side door panel is seriously driving me up the wall.
 
My 2013 SI coupe has the same problem. This Friday is going to be the 3rd attempt the dealership tries to fix it. Even with my dp and exhaust, I can't still hear/sense the air leaking in. :/
 
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