Monk
Well-Known Member
Please pass this along to other forums, & any other public source you use.
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBnlXGvA1Wk
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBnlXGvA1Wk
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How good is MPG in the USA ?
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I've seen this before, and usually people tend to link these articles
http://pesn.com/2012/05/01/9602085_...nt_to_sell_high_mileage_cars_to_US_consumers/
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/passat.asp
http://pesn.com/2012/05/01/9602085_...nt_to_sell_high_mileage_cars_to_US_consumers/
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/passat.asp
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Monk
Well-Known Member
I posted this on my MC forum where we have a lot of Europeans members, asking them what their take is on this with their cars. I'll post what I find out, positive or negitive.
FooBird
If the Foo...well, you know. Just wear it.
The argument about the gas tax funding the roads is pretty true. Here in Washington and in several other places, they're considering an excise tax based on actual miles driven, even assumed miles driven. This is to bridge the gap between the EPA implementing targeted minimum fuel economy standards dipping into the infrastructure tax base. Good mileage cars are bad for the infrastructure because the demand decreases. So they have to implement other forms of tax or tolls to collect their money. Even bicyclists are being targeted with a WA state senate bill proposing a $25 excise tax on bicycles because "they don't pay the gas tax but use the roads." The balance between the gasoline tax and the increasing EPA regulations to push cars to 35.5 mpg by 2015 is going to tip the balance and all forms of government from the local, state, and federal level are already looking at levying more taxes in forms other than gasoline to cover infrastructure costs. We're seeing that already in Washington with implementation of tolls on roads, government considering putting GPS in cars to track mileage use on public roads, additional car registration fees, etc. I saw that in NY too with the ever increasing tolls on the Thruway to keep their revenues increasing.
As for the government blocking the diesel, the US market passenger car market seems to do enough and years of market inertia make it tough for us to change. I like a good government conspiracy as much as the next guy, maybe more so. The only real influences here the government has is a problem with NOx emissions and import fees. The NOx emissions controls with urea injection, low sulfur content fuel and other additional emissions systems on the diesel are imposed by the EPA, making it just more cost prohibitive on the market to sell both the diesel fuel and the motor. That fact doesn't mention those NOx controls make the engine run richer, reducing the efficiency. The EPA testing program doesn't help either. Don't get me going on that one and how many of the cars aren't even truly tested... People read the window sticker as gospel truth and that a gas-hybrid engine gets 50 mpg, while the more expensive diesel only gets 41. But in reality, in highway conditions, they diesel may actually pull higher mpg largely due to the Diesel cycle having a higher thermal efficiency.
The American people here remain largely uninformed and continue to believe that diesel engines are noisy, rattle, belch black smoke and are generally bad. So, for the most part people won't consider to buy them. They are then validated by going down the road with the guy with the diesel truck, lifted 6" slamming the gas making a huge racket and pouring black smoke from their 5" exhaust. Then they are bombarded by commercials from every car company they want to buy a hybrid because they get such great gas mileage, when it fact, it's really only a true benefit when you're in stop and go traffic, not cruising at 70 mph down the highway. The only benefit there is a boost from a small 4 cylinder engine running on a powerless Atkinson cycle that only really works with the aid of electric motors to get the cars moving (see Prius, Volt). Just reading the opening of the article would turn the layman reader totally against the idea of a normal combustion engine, either spark-ignition or compression-ignition. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/atkinson-cycle-engine.htm
What we need are engineers and scientists, not lawyers informing the people about all subjects. But that's not where we are at. Add into that, these same people are informing the government officials, who unfortunately likely 98% of them probably never took a collegiate level physical science course other than biology, same with these environmental and energy policy lobbyists. A sophomore level thermodynamics class requiring the same level of understanding in math and physics is enough to teach them their policies are bad. Yes, engineers can tell you all day long that we can make a better system, achieve those higher standards, IF we could just master XXXX, whether that's a higher battery energy density, lower loss systems, etc. Of course, I have no opinion on the subject...and could not go on for hours about the subject...
As for the government blocking the diesel, the US market passenger car market seems to do enough and years of market inertia make it tough for us to change. I like a good government conspiracy as much as the next guy, maybe more so. The only real influences here the government has is a problem with NOx emissions and import fees. The NOx emissions controls with urea injection, low sulfur content fuel and other additional emissions systems on the diesel are imposed by the EPA, making it just more cost prohibitive on the market to sell both the diesel fuel and the motor. That fact doesn't mention those NOx controls make the engine run richer, reducing the efficiency. The EPA testing program doesn't help either. Don't get me going on that one and how many of the cars aren't even truly tested... People read the window sticker as gospel truth and that a gas-hybrid engine gets 50 mpg, while the more expensive diesel only gets 41. But in reality, in highway conditions, they diesel may actually pull higher mpg largely due to the Diesel cycle having a higher thermal efficiency.
The American people here remain largely uninformed and continue to believe that diesel engines are noisy, rattle, belch black smoke and are generally bad. So, for the most part people won't consider to buy them. They are then validated by going down the road with the guy with the diesel truck, lifted 6" slamming the gas making a huge racket and pouring black smoke from their 5" exhaust. Then they are bombarded by commercials from every car company they want to buy a hybrid because they get such great gas mileage, when it fact, it's really only a true benefit when you're in stop and go traffic, not cruising at 70 mph down the highway. The only benefit there is a boost from a small 4 cylinder engine running on a powerless Atkinson cycle that only really works with the aid of electric motors to get the cars moving (see Prius, Volt). Just reading the opening of the article would turn the layman reader totally against the idea of a normal combustion engine, either spark-ignition or compression-ignition. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/atkinson-cycle-engine.htm
What we need are engineers and scientists, not lawyers informing the people about all subjects. But that's not where we are at. Add into that, these same people are informing the government officials, who unfortunately likely 98% of them probably never took a collegiate level physical science course other than biology, same with these environmental and energy policy lobbyists. A sophomore level thermodynamics class requiring the same level of understanding in math and physics is enough to teach them their policies are bad. Yes, engineers can tell you all day long that we can make a better system, achieve those higher standards, IF we could just master XXXX, whether that's a higher battery energy density, lower loss systems, etc. Of course, I have no opinion on the subject...and could not go on for hours about the subject...
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